Episode 12 Season 4: Roles and Relationships in Narcissistic Family Dynamics

[00:00:03] Hello, beloveds, and welcome to Christian Emotional Recovery, a podcast for those who are survivors

[00:00:11] of childhood trauma, emotional neglect, and narcissistic abuse.

[00:00:17] This podcast is hosted by Rachel Leroy, a college professor and trauma survivor.

[00:00:23] Many of us spend years trying to heal and don't get anywhere.

[00:00:28] We don't always target the trauma itself, which is so often what keeps us stuck.

[00:00:35] This podcast is where faith meets science.

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[00:00:45] that helped her start making progress after nothing else worked.

[00:00:49] She'll show you how to do the same.

[00:00:52] Each week we'll cover a topic that will show you how to heal trauma for good.

[00:00:57] Please check out our website and show notes at ChristianEmotionalRecovery.com

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[00:01:16] Hello everyone and welcome to Season 4 Episode 12 of Christian Emotional Recovery.

[00:01:23] I'm your host, Rachel Leroy, and this is a crossover episode.

[00:01:28] And the episode is called Roles and Relationships in Narcissistic Family Dynamics,

[00:01:33] and this is Season 4 Episode 12.

[00:01:40] This is a crossover episode, and what that means is that I will sometimes take videos

[00:01:46] from the YouTube channel and make them into a podcast episode.

[00:01:50] Most of what I have on the YouTube channel is exclusive to the YouTube channel

[00:01:54] and is not on the podcast, and most of what is on the podcast is exclusive to the podcast

[00:01:59] and not on the YouTube channel.

[00:02:01] But I do cross promote about two or three times a year

[00:02:03] and do a crossover episode.

[00:02:05] It also saves me time.

[00:02:07] So if you would like to get the YouTube videos and you listen to the podcast,

[00:02:11] please go to Christian Emotional Recovery, the YouTube channel,

[00:02:15] and you can click the subscribe bell and you'll get notified anytime a new

[00:02:19] episode of the videos comes out.

[00:02:22] Also keep in mind that the podcast is on the YouTube channel as well,

[00:02:26] or you can access it at your favorite podcast platform.

[00:02:29] So I don't want to waste any time, so without further ado, we'll get into the new episode.

[00:02:35] But just a couple of things.

[00:02:36] I apologize for the sound quality in the video.

[00:02:39] The videos don't always have the right, the best sound quality

[00:02:42] because I'm using my iPhone to record and sometimes there's a little more background

[00:02:46] sound because I'm clicking and looking through the articles so I can give you the information

[00:02:50] that you get today.

[00:02:51] So just keep that in mind and thank you for bearing with me.

[00:02:54] So let's go ahead and jump right in.

[00:02:56] Roles and relationships in narcissistic family dynamics.

[00:03:02] Hello everyone and welcome to Rachel LeRoy's YouTube channel,

[00:03:06] which is Christian Emotional Recovery.

[00:03:08] And of course I'm your host, Rachel LeRoy.

[00:03:11] And this is a YouTube video about the family roles and relationships

[00:03:15] in a narcissistic family dynamic.

[00:03:18] So we'll talk about today the family roles and relationships

[00:03:21] in a narcissistic family dynamic.

[00:03:24] And like I said, I don't like to obsess with narcissism and narcissists,

[00:03:29] but I do think it's important to educate people about the roles that narcissists play in abuse

[00:03:36] and in mistreatment and in trauma, particularly for trauma survivors

[00:03:41] and how you can learn about those, protect yourself and move on

[00:03:45] to live the life that God intended you to live.

[00:03:47] So this isn't about going down a rabbit hole and obsessing as much as it is

[00:03:52] about educating ourselves and putting this information into practice

[00:03:57] to empower yourself, to protect yourself

[00:04:00] and those that you love that might be in situations like this.

[00:04:03] To love everybody in the situation, including potentially the narcissist

[00:04:07] in your life if you have to live with them.

[00:04:09] So I wanted to talk a little bit about those different roles and dynamics today.

[00:04:13] We'll get into that in just a few minutes.

[00:04:15] First, if you haven't, please click the subscribe bell.

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[00:05:08] or the show notes that are in the podcast

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[00:05:13] You can give, there's no obligation, you don't have to,

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[00:05:58] Okay? Also, if you haven't,

[00:06:00] go check out the Facebook group,

[00:06:02] Christian Emotional Recovery,

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[00:06:09] which houses the website and has other goodies,

[00:06:11] including freebies, and also go to rachalleroy.com

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[00:06:19] You can check out the store,

[00:06:20] I'll link all those in the show notes

[00:06:21] and you can check those out as well.

[00:06:23] And not only is there a store,

[00:06:24] but that you can also subscribe to the newsletter

[00:06:27] and you can also get a free infographic

[00:06:30] on the acorn technique

[00:06:32] for dealing with difficult emotions.

[00:06:34] So let's go ahead and jump in.

[00:06:36] I don't want to go on forever.

[00:06:38] Thank you so much for following me.

[00:06:40] So what we're going to talk about

[00:06:41] with the family roles and relationships

[00:06:43] in the narcissistic family dynamic.

[00:06:45] First, we'll talk about children

[00:06:47] and sibling roles in that dynamic.

[00:06:50] And then we'll talk about

[00:06:51] narcissistic family dynamics themselves.

[00:06:53] Now when I say a narcissistic family,

[00:06:56] that doesn't mean everybody in the family

[00:06:57] is necessarily a narcissist.

[00:06:59] There may be one, there may be two.

[00:07:01] It might be part of the family,

[00:07:02] it might be everybody but one person

[00:07:04] and I really feel for those people.

[00:07:06] But and like I said,

[00:07:08] this isn't to degrade somebody

[00:07:09] who might be categorized as a narcissist.

[00:07:11] Anybody can heal if they want to get help.

[00:07:14] That's the whole issue here

[00:07:15] is that narcissists often are not wired

[00:07:17] and or are not capable of making the choice to heal.

[00:07:22] I'm talking about full-blown narcissists.

[00:07:24] I'm not talking about people

[00:07:24] that may have strong narcissistic traits

[00:07:26] and they can be jerks more than an average person

[00:07:29] that they're also capable

[00:07:30] of looking inside of themselves

[00:07:32] and saying, hey, I can be a real a-hole.

[00:07:34] Maybe I should work on myself.

[00:07:36] Some people are not capable of doing that.

[00:07:38] Like they don't have the wiring.

[00:07:40] I don't know why.

[00:07:41] I don't understand it.

[00:07:42] I don't know how you interpret that biblically.

[00:07:46] I do know that the behaviors of extreme narcissism

[00:07:51] go along with the behaviors of what the Bible talks about

[00:07:54] when it comes to rebel rousers,

[00:07:56] boat rockers, people that are involved in sin

[00:07:59] and corruption and greed and manipulation.

[00:08:02] You get the idea.

[00:08:03] You get the idea.

[00:08:05] But so we're talking about the family dynamics here next

[00:08:09] and we're talking about the general roles

[00:08:10] in narcissistic family dynamics.

[00:08:12] What are some of those more general roles?

[00:08:14] And it kind of goes with the previous category

[00:08:16] of sibling roles, children roles,

[00:08:20] because some of these overlap.

[00:08:21] Some of the roles can be parents and children

[00:08:24] and some of them are mainly children.

[00:08:26] I'm focusing for the sake of this

[00:08:27] more on the child because a lot of us here

[00:08:29] are adult, codependent survivors of alcoholic

[00:08:33] and or narcissistic families

[00:08:35] and parents and caretakers.

[00:08:38] And so this is really what I'm focusing on

[00:08:40] in this platform, in this podcast more,

[00:08:42] not that I'm not focusing on some of the other stuff.

[00:08:45] And so the next one is the unwritten rules

[00:08:47] of narcissistic family dynamic.

[00:08:49] The unwritten rules of a narcissistic family dynamic.

[00:08:52] And then when a sibling is a narcissist

[00:08:54] and when a parent is a narcissist.

[00:08:57] So we'll talk about the children's roles,

[00:09:00] the siblings roles in narcissistic family dynamics.

[00:09:03] Then we'll go more into the dynamic itself,

[00:09:05] narcissistic family dynamics.

[00:09:07] Under that umbrella we'll talk about

[00:09:08] the structure of a narcissistic family dynamic,

[00:09:11] general roles in the narcissistic family dynamic,

[00:09:14] unwritten rules of a narcissistic family dynamic.

[00:09:17] And when a sibling or a parent is a narcissist,

[00:09:19] we'll talk about each of those separately.

[00:09:21] So let's jump right in.

[00:09:23] And I'm using visuals if you're on the YouTube channel

[00:09:26] and if you're doing,

[00:09:27] I'm making this a crossover episode.

[00:09:29] So I'm also putting it on the podcast.

[00:09:31] So if you want to see the visuals here,

[00:09:35] just go to the YouTube video.

[00:09:37] You will go to the YouTube video,

[00:09:38] you can type in the title

[00:09:40] and you'll see it in a YouTube version.

[00:09:42] So keep that in mind as we're going along.

[00:09:44] Okay?

[00:09:46] So I as always have resources

[00:09:48] and as always I will put those in the show notes

[00:09:51] so you can read any of them.

[00:09:52] You can look at the links that those have as well

[00:09:54] and you can look at these resources

[00:09:56] and read them to learn more

[00:09:58] about narcissistic family dynamics.

[00:10:01] So like I said,

[00:10:02] it's one thing to talk about narcissistic

[00:10:04] relationships and different types of narcissists

[00:10:07] in a video slash YouTube,

[00:10:13] I mean in a YouTube slash podcast,

[00:10:15] I did or am talking about,

[00:10:17] I'm not sure which comes out first,

[00:10:19] but I'm talking about the different types of narcissists.

[00:10:22] So we're breaking that down as well.

[00:10:23] But I wanted to go a little more into this

[00:10:25] because I wanted you to see how it all connects.

[00:10:28] How does this work in a family dynamic?

[00:10:30] So there's an article here from Sentient Counseling.

[00:10:33] Sentient Counseling,

[00:10:34] I was trying to see if there was an author of this one.

[00:10:39] I don't see a name,

[00:10:41] but Sentient Counseling is the source

[00:10:45] where this comes from

[00:10:46] and this is based in the UK.

[00:10:48] I get a lot of good sources from all over the world.

[00:10:51] And then,

[00:10:52] so let's just jump right into some of the roles

[00:10:55] in a narcissistic family.

[00:10:56] Now some of these are parents,

[00:10:58] but they also talk about the children a lot.

[00:11:01] So I wanted to talk about some of those different roles.

[00:11:04] First you have the enabler

[00:11:06] and they say it's a weak-willed person.

[00:11:09] I don't know if that's a nice way of putting it,

[00:11:10] but maybe so.

[00:11:11] Yeah, they're generally a co-dependent partner

[00:11:13] of the narcissist

[00:11:14] who will do anything to appease them.

[00:11:17] And there is nothing,

[00:11:19] and they do nothing when the narcissist is in a rage

[00:11:21] as they

[00:11:23] and accept as normal any humiliation dished out to them,

[00:11:26] whether in fear or with a nervous laugh.

[00:11:29] So this makes it sound like it's coming from the parents role

[00:11:31] that maybe one's a narcissist

[00:11:33] and the other one is an enabler.

[00:11:35] And those people aren't just the ones

[00:11:37] that kind of run away

[00:11:38] or don't want to have anything to do with the family.

[00:11:40] Those are usually the ones

[00:11:41] that can actually become flying monkeys.

[00:11:44] And if you don't know what a flying monkey

[00:11:46] is a flying monkey

[00:11:46] is somebody who not only hovers around the narcissist

[00:11:50] but actually goes to the people that they're abusing

[00:11:53] and tries to push down their boundaries

[00:11:55] and tries to...

[00:11:57] They send those people in

[00:11:58] to try to do their dirty work.

[00:12:00] And sometimes the flying monkey

[00:12:02] is truly unaware of the harm they're doing

[00:12:04] and truly unaware of what's really happening.

[00:12:06] And in other cases,

[00:12:07] they're fully aware of it

[00:12:08] and they don't care.

[00:12:09] And so the enabler is kind of that role.

[00:12:11] And I think it could be a parent or a child

[00:12:13] because you might have siblings,

[00:12:15] several siblings

[00:12:16] and you might have one sibling enabling

[00:12:19] and sort of bowing down to a narcissistic

[00:12:22] other sibling

[00:12:23] and then another one might be aware

[00:12:25] of what's going on

[00:12:26] and they might team up on the one that's more aware

[00:12:28] and you might have had that experience

[00:12:30] of different family roles.

[00:12:32] So the next one is the golden child

[00:12:34] and that's the child as seen

[00:12:35] as an extension of the parent

[00:12:37] and treated as the favorite.

[00:12:39] They live vicariously through the parent

[00:12:40] and vice versa.

[00:12:41] They can be manipulative,

[00:12:44] employing bullying tactics

[00:12:44] towards their siblings and others

[00:12:46] when there's no one around to catch them.

[00:12:49] There are a lot of expectations

[00:12:50] on the child to be perfect

[00:12:51] in order to make the parent look good.

[00:12:53] That doesn't necessarily mean

[00:12:55] that the golden child is always a narcissist.

[00:12:59] That's not true.

[00:13:00] I've actually seen in some cases

[00:13:02] where the narcissistic child was badly behaved

[00:13:05] and the parents would constantly discipline

[00:13:07] that child and not like them

[00:13:10] and then the well-behaved child

[00:13:12] was more codependent

[00:13:13] and just kind of smoothed over conflict

[00:13:16] and always did what they were told

[00:13:18] and they actually became the golden child.

[00:13:20] But what happens in more cases

[00:13:22] is that the narcissistic child

[00:13:23] becomes the golden child.

[00:13:25] They're seen as perfect

[00:13:25] as the article says,

[00:13:26] a reflection of the parent

[00:13:27] and anything wrong they do

[00:13:29] is seen as something wrong with them.

[00:13:31] So the parent will either blame others

[00:13:33] and emotionally humiliate the child

[00:13:34] when the child learns from an early age

[00:13:36] that images everything.

[00:13:38] So they kind of put the child

[00:13:41] on a pedestal

[00:13:41] and they don't discipline the child enough,

[00:13:46] put enough balance there

[00:13:47] in terms of setting boundaries

[00:13:49] and stuff like that.

[00:13:50] A lot of times those children

[00:13:51] are just oh my precious sweetheart,

[00:13:53] you can do no wrong

[00:13:54] and they don't set any boundaries

[00:13:55] and sometimes that does turn them

[00:13:57] into a narcissist

[00:13:58] because there's never been

[00:13:59] any boundaries or accountability

[00:14:01] set for that child, right?

[00:14:03] So the scapegoat child

[00:14:04] is often the other extreme.

[00:14:06] It's the one where the child

[00:14:07] can do no right.

[00:14:08] The child is blamed for everything

[00:14:11] the scapegoat child is inferior

[00:14:13] to the golden child in every way.

[00:14:15] So when the golden child can do no wrong

[00:14:18] the scapegoat child it says

[00:14:19] can never do anything right.

[00:14:20] This child is often called

[00:14:21] the black sheep of the family

[00:14:23] and labeled as a troublemaker

[00:14:24] who doesn't conform.

[00:14:26] Often it's the person who calls BS

[00:14:27] on the narcissistic family dynamic

[00:14:30] that becomes the scapegoat

[00:14:31] and these roles can actually change

[00:14:34] because in my family,

[00:14:35] I'll be honest,

[00:14:36] I was the golden child at one time

[00:14:37] and now I'm kind of,

[00:14:38] I wouldn't say I'm actively

[00:14:41] treated with active hostility

[00:14:42] by everybody in the family

[00:14:43] but with one or two people I am

[00:14:45] and with the others.

[00:14:46] Yes, I'm kind of the scapegoat now

[00:14:48] because I call BS on a lot of stuff

[00:14:50] and I don't,

[00:14:51] I'm not vocal about it.

[00:14:52] I don't talk about it

[00:14:52] but I've said enough

[00:14:53] and changed my behavior enough

[00:14:55] that it's obvious

[00:14:56] but it says spending their childhood

[00:14:57] trying to get approval from a parent

[00:14:59] it is never enough

[00:15:00] and that's how they become a codependent.

[00:15:02] Scapegoat children more often

[00:15:04] than not become codependence.

[00:15:06] They can never meet the parents'

[00:15:07] expectations the way the golden child does

[00:15:09] and that does not mean the golden child

[00:15:11] is better or does anything better

[00:15:12] or is more talented or more able.

[00:15:14] There are more factors

[00:15:15] that go into it than that.

[00:15:17] So any successes or achievements

[00:15:19] are attributed to others

[00:15:21] compared to unfavorably to the goal

[00:15:23] or they're compared unfavorably

[00:15:25] to the golden child.

[00:15:26] Bear with me my cats

[00:15:27] rattling in the background.

[00:15:29] So I won't go into all of that.

[00:15:31] The next one,

[00:15:32] and keep in mind some of these

[00:15:33] can overlap for example,

[00:15:34] often the scapegoat

[00:15:35] is the caretaker

[00:15:36] and the another one child

[00:15:37] is the caretaker child.

[00:15:39] So you had the golden child,

[00:15:40] the scapegoat

[00:15:41] and now the caretaker child

[00:15:43] and sentient counseling says

[00:15:45] this is the rescuer of the family

[00:15:48] not the same thing as the enabler.

[00:15:50] The enabler actually eggs on

[00:15:53] the narcissist.

[00:15:54] The caretaker just wants

[00:15:56] everything to be okay

[00:15:57] and that's often a sign

[00:15:59] of codependency as well

[00:16:00] not always but often

[00:16:01] but it says they cannot

[00:16:02] tolerate conflict

[00:16:04] and will sacrifice everything

[00:16:05] putting the needs of others

[00:16:06] before their own

[00:16:07] in order to avoid emotional turmoil.

[00:16:10] That was me.

[00:16:11] I wasn't the kind of person

[00:16:12] that would like take over

[00:16:13] and try to

[00:16:16] comfort and soothe everybody

[00:16:18] and be the healer in the family

[00:16:19] but I was more like

[00:16:20] the kind of person

[00:16:20] that went in the background

[00:16:22] and would try to stay out

[00:16:24] of conflict

[00:16:24] and would try to make myself

[00:16:27] whatever people needed me

[00:16:28] to be to avoid escalating it

[00:16:30] further.

[00:16:31] So that was kind of my style

[00:16:32] of being the caretaker.

[00:16:34] So it's not always an active thing.

[00:16:36] Sometimes it's more being

[00:16:37] in the background

[00:16:37] but it says they have no idea

[00:16:39] how to get their own needs met

[00:16:41] so they focus on others needs instead

[00:16:44] and when they are there

[00:16:45] is upset they jump

[00:16:46] into rescuing

[00:16:47] and pacifying mode.

[00:16:48] So it can inadvertently

[00:16:50] enable a narcissist

[00:16:51] because you're trying to coax them

[00:16:53] instead of making them responsible

[00:16:54] for controlling their own actions

[00:16:56] if they're an adult

[00:16:58] and so the caretaker child

[00:17:00] is often a people pleaser

[00:17:02] and often designed

[00:17:04] defined only by what they can do for others.

[00:17:06] Do you see how being a Christian

[00:17:08] and wanting to serve and help others

[00:17:10] and then having this mode

[00:17:12] role in your life

[00:17:13] already being conditioned

[00:17:14] that way can be dangerous for you

[00:17:16] in terms of your emotional health.

[00:17:18] That's why I'm always talking

[00:17:19] about the fact that we have to set

[00:17:21] boundaries and love ourselves

[00:17:22] and take care of ourselves

[00:17:23] and make sure that our motivations

[00:17:25] are good

[00:17:26] and that's why we need to heal

[00:17:27] the root of the need to be

[00:17:29] a caretaker for these codependent reasons

[00:17:32] instead of because of

[00:17:33] our overflowing love for people

[00:17:35] our overflowing love for God

[00:17:36] and our enjoyment of doing things like that.

[00:17:39] Coming from a genuine place

[00:17:41] in doing these things is healthy

[00:17:43] but when we do it

[00:17:44] because we enslave ourselves

[00:17:45] to our own emotional impulses

[00:17:47] it's not healthy at all

[00:17:49] and you can actually burn yourself out

[00:17:51] because you're more likely

[00:17:52] to not stop

[00:17:53] because it is an impulse.

[00:17:55] When it's a conscious choice

[00:17:56] and the motive comes

[00:17:57] from a more authentic place

[00:17:59] you know when to stop

[00:18:00] right and take care of yourself

[00:18:02] and set boundaries

[00:18:03] and say I can't do this right now

[00:18:04] you know and delegate.

[00:18:06] So there's another one

[00:18:09] it just says invisibility

[00:18:10] but I would say the invisible child

[00:18:12] and this is probably more the role I had

[00:18:16] this child never receives praise or blame

[00:18:19] I would also argue

[00:18:20] that middle children get this more

[00:18:22] though not always

[00:18:23] they are ignored

[00:18:24] the narcissistic parent

[00:18:25] has no interest in them

[00:18:26] as they have no use for them

[00:18:28] nothing is expected of them

[00:18:29] so more often than not

[00:18:31] they don't even try

[00:18:32] they will receive just enough care

[00:18:34] to conceal the level of neglect

[00:18:35] they tend to become withdrawn

[00:18:37] and live in a private world

[00:18:38] of their own imagination

[00:18:39] as an adult

[00:18:40] they become very independent

[00:18:41] as they feel

[00:18:42] they have no one to rely on

[00:18:44] that's really sad

[00:18:45] that a child is that way

[00:18:46] but that is like I said

[00:18:48] children can feel

[00:18:49] or adults can feel

[00:18:51] more than one role here

[00:18:52] you could be the invisible child

[00:18:54] and also be the caretaker child

[00:18:55] at the same time

[00:18:56] I think a little bit of both

[00:18:57] but I think I was more

[00:18:59] the invisible child actually

[00:19:01] hero

[00:19:01] the child takes on the role of the parent

[00:19:04] and becomes very responsible

[00:19:05] at an early age

[00:19:06] they are perfectionist

[00:19:07] and aim to hide the family dysfunction

[00:19:09] by trying to be

[00:19:11] and have the best

[00:19:12] the belief is that

[00:19:14] this will show the world

[00:19:15] that they are the product

[00:19:16] of perfect parenting

[00:19:17] they are often critical

[00:19:18] and judgmental of others

[00:19:20] however they cannot take

[00:19:21] any kind of criticism themselves

[00:19:23] as it shows a side of themselves

[00:19:25] they would rather not see

[00:19:26] so I would think

[00:19:27] that could be a narcissist

[00:19:29] or a codependent

[00:19:30] or just anybody

[00:19:32] mascot

[00:19:32] the mascot takes responsibility

[00:19:34] for the emotional well-being

[00:19:35] and public image of the family

[00:19:37] they become entertainers

[00:19:38] to reflect attention away

[00:19:39] from the shame

[00:19:40] in paying the family feels

[00:19:42] I would argue that any body

[00:19:44] in any of the roles could do this

[00:19:45] I think even a narcissist

[00:19:47] could be a mascot

[00:19:47] because they may try to be cheerful

[00:19:49] and have these family get-togethers

[00:19:51] and do all these things

[00:19:52] for the family

[00:19:53] but then in private

[00:19:55] they scream at people

[00:19:56] and they are abusive

[00:19:57] and they are very bossy

[00:19:58] and they are overbearing

[00:19:59] so you know it can go

[00:20:00] in multiple ways

[00:20:02] what's on the surface

[00:20:03] might be different than what's underneath

[00:20:04] often they lack assertiveness

[00:20:06] and never having developed

[00:20:07] a healthy sense of self-struggle

[00:20:09] with feelings of emptiness

[00:20:10] they support the family

[00:20:12] as a way of worshiping

[00:20:13] the narcissistic parent

[00:20:14] in a sense

[00:20:15] they become a closet narcissist

[00:20:16] basking in the glory of others

[00:20:19] that's another one

[00:20:20] the manipulator

[00:20:21] probably the most insidious

[00:20:24] of all the roles

[00:20:25] is the manipulator

[00:20:26] the manipulator is abusive

[00:20:27] and selfish

[00:20:28] and this can be a parent or a child

[00:20:30] they have a sense of entitlement

[00:20:32] and are both callous

[00:20:33] and opportunistic

[00:20:33] the manipulator operates

[00:20:35] in a way that is shrewd

[00:20:36] and devious

[00:20:37] never admitting to anything

[00:20:38] and does enough to please the parent

[00:20:41] to get away with the abuse of others

[00:20:43] they use others' weaknesses against them

[00:20:45] to get what they want

[00:20:46] even if it's just sadistic pleasure

[00:20:48] this is a role carried on in adulthood

[00:20:50] I was a target of somebody like this

[00:20:55] who was much more powerful

[00:20:56] bigger and older than me

[00:20:58] and I saw them often

[00:21:01] and I was a target for them

[00:21:02] and they tormented me just for pleasure

[00:21:04] so these people do exist

[00:21:06] and more times than not

[00:21:07] they are a narcissist

[00:21:08] or some kind of

[00:21:10] have some kind of pathology

[00:21:12] let's put it that way

[00:21:13] I'm not a psychologist

[00:21:14] keep in mind that I'm just educating you

[00:21:16] I'm not an expert

[00:21:17] and I'm not a substitute

[00:21:18] for therapeutic care

[00:21:20] if you need it

[00:21:21] or medical care

[00:21:22] but I'm just providing information

[00:21:23] to empower you

[00:21:24] okay so those are the sibling

[00:21:26] and child roles

[00:21:27] in a narcissistic family

[00:21:29] and I just wanted to give you

[00:21:30] a second possibility here

[00:21:33] so you can see

[00:21:34] different ways that this is set up

[00:21:36] and so there's another article

[00:21:39] in USA Today

[00:21:40] USA Today

[00:21:41] and it is

[00:21:42] what happens when a narcissist

[00:21:44] becomes a parent

[00:21:46] they force their kids into these roles

[00:21:48] and then

[00:21:51] it talks about

[00:21:53] were you a golden child

[00:21:54] or a scapegoat

[00:21:57] so some of the other roles

[00:21:59] in the narcissistic family

[00:22:01] one thing that I did want to point out

[00:22:03] real quick was

[00:22:04] if you want to learn about

[00:22:05] narcissistic roles in the family

[00:22:07] and different types of narcissists

[00:22:09] the best

[00:22:11] expert that I can recommend

[00:22:13] is Dr. Romani

[00:22:14] her name is Dr. Romani

[00:22:17] Dervisula

[00:22:19] but she calls herself Dr. Romani

[00:22:21] that's R-A-M-A-N-I

[00:22:23] and I will put her

[00:22:26] platform in the show notes

[00:22:27] because her

[00:22:28] she is the foremost authority on this

[00:22:30] she's a psychologist

[00:22:32] and she has so many videos

[00:22:34] and her videos are really interesting

[00:22:36] and she's very good at educating you

[00:22:38] about these different roles

[00:22:39] just be cautious about going down a rabbit hole

[00:22:41] like I said but Dr. Romani

[00:22:43] is the best

[00:22:44] she's the best at this stuff

[00:22:45] and her book

[00:22:47] sort of categorized these

[00:22:49] before anybody else was

[00:22:50] or before a lot of people were

[00:22:51] and this is the ones that

[00:22:53] Dervisula

[00:22:54] which is Dr. Romani

[00:22:55] and Cole another person that she worked with

[00:22:57] they say that children of narcissists

[00:22:59] can fulfill several other roles as well

[00:23:01] the truth seeker

[00:23:03] and in the USA Today article

[00:23:05] this is

[00:23:06] hang on just a second

[00:23:08] let's who's the author

[00:23:09] this is written by Charles Trepany

[00:23:11] Charles Trepany

[00:23:12] T-R-E-P-A-N-Y

[00:23:14] and this is USA Today

[00:23:15] and the different roles

[00:23:17] other roles in a narcissistic family

[00:23:19] besides the ones I went over

[00:23:20] are the truth seeker

[00:23:21] that is those of us that are on this journey

[00:23:23] and we're working on healing ourselves right now

[00:23:26] and we're the ones that are more likely to call BS

[00:23:28] or we just kind of sit back

[00:23:29] and we don't say anything

[00:23:30] and we observe

[00:23:31] and we know everything that's going on

[00:23:33] and we don't say much about it

[00:23:35] and we just know

[00:23:35] but the truth seeking child

[00:23:37] is the child that at some level gets

[00:23:39] that it's not okay

[00:23:40] and there's a wisdom to this child

[00:23:42] she says

[00:23:43] this is a child who because they see the truth

[00:23:45] may try to soothe siblings

[00:23:47] and then the invisible child

[00:23:49] this is one I already talked about

[00:23:51] is literally the child that is unseen

[00:23:53] Cole says

[00:23:53] it doesn't matter if they're doing well

[00:23:55] if they're not doing well

[00:23:56] if they're succeeding at school

[00:23:58] or failing at school

[00:23:58] if they are engaging in positive

[00:24:00] or negative behaviors at home

[00:24:01] they're simply not just seen

[00:24:03] they're forgotten

[00:24:04] they're completely overlooked

[00:24:05] that was me completely

[00:24:07] that's where emotional neglect comes in

[00:24:10] the peacekeeper

[00:24:11] this is the kid who is trying to minimize

[00:24:13] the conflict and the fighting

[00:24:14] and the family system

[00:24:15] who is trying to keep the system running

[00:24:17] I would argue that a parent

[00:24:18] could be any of these roles too

[00:24:20] you can imagine for a kid like this

[00:24:22] there can be a lot of anxiety

[00:24:23] the adherent

[00:24:24] they're a big fan of the narcissistic parent

[00:24:27] so the adherent is just another word for

[00:24:29] the

[00:24:31] enabler

[00:24:32] and or maybe even the flying monkey

[00:24:35] they're a big fan of the narcissistic parent

[00:24:37] Darvasula says

[00:24:38] it almost feels culty

[00:24:40] they're totally bought

[00:24:42] they've totally bought into the family

[00:24:44] what the family is

[00:24:45] even though no one's being nice

[00:24:47] even though everyone's being mistreated

[00:24:49] they may not even be consciously aware of it

[00:24:52] but it says as all these siblings get into adulthood

[00:24:55] they might be the person who says

[00:24:57] don't say that

[00:24:58] this is our family

[00:24:59] you shouldn't say that

[00:25:00] you've heard that before

[00:25:01] but it's family

[00:25:02] and you know

[00:25:03] that's usually coming from somebody

[00:25:05] who's either a narcissist

[00:25:05] who's trying to guilt you

[00:25:07] a scapegoat

[00:25:09] not a scapegoat

[00:25:10] a flying monkey or a golden child

[00:25:12] or a an adherent

[00:25:14] who wants to smooth things over

[00:25:15] and make everything okay

[00:25:16] even when it's not even to the point of denial

[00:25:19] or it could be somebody who

[00:25:26] somebody who

[00:25:27] doesn't understand what's actually going on

[00:25:30] in the family

[00:25:30] and they're just overstepping their bounds

[00:25:33] right

[00:25:34] now narcissistic family dynamics

[00:25:36] the structure of a narcissistic

[00:25:39] family dynamic

[00:25:40] so basically

[00:25:41] the structure of a narcissistic family dynamic

[00:25:44] is very unique among each family

[00:25:46] so there's not one particular structure

[00:25:49] but I wanted to go over some of the possible ways

[00:25:52] that a narcissistic family dynamic

[00:25:55] can impact those in the family

[00:25:57] different people with different roles

[00:25:59] so I'm going to go over one article

[00:26:02] the choosing therapy article

[00:26:04] which is basic family dynamics

[00:26:06] of a narcissistic family dynamic

[00:26:08] and I'll discuss the different dynamics

[00:26:10] in the relationships

[00:26:11] including when different family members

[00:26:13] such as parents and children

[00:26:14] take on these specific roles

[00:26:16] and I'll include concepts like

[00:26:18] love bombing, hoovering, flying monkeys,

[00:26:20] gaslighting, smear campaigns,

[00:26:22] triangulation and word salad

[00:26:24] so let's look at

[00:26:26] the choosing therapy article

[00:26:28] so what is a narcissistic family structure

[00:26:31] that's the whole

[00:26:33] thing that we're talking about today

[00:26:34] right the narcissistic family dynamic

[00:26:36] and structure

[00:26:37] within a narcissistic family

[00:26:39] choosing therapy says

[00:26:40] there is usually a specific structure

[00:26:42] that keeps the homeostasis

[00:26:44] or maintenance of the family

[00:26:46] thus continuing the enabling the narcissist

[00:26:52] narcissistic individual or individuals

[00:26:54] can be anyone in the family

[00:26:56] but is generally an adult

[00:26:58] such as a parent or grandparent

[00:26:59] this person often has traits of

[00:27:01] or has been diagnosed with

[00:27:03] narcissistic personality disorder

[00:27:05] because the dysfunctional family

[00:27:06] dynamic center around fulfilling

[00:27:08] this person's needs

[00:27:09] the needs of everyone else

[00:27:12] are generally overlooked

[00:27:13] additionally manipulation tactics

[00:27:15] such as blaming disrespect

[00:27:16] and gaslighting

[00:27:18] are commonly utilized in these families

[00:27:20] and are used to further control

[00:27:23] the control of the narcissist

[00:27:25] so with a narcissist

[00:27:26] it's often about control

[00:27:28] this choosing therapy article

[00:27:29] by the way is by

[00:27:30] Katie Gillis

[00:27:31] K-A-T-E-E

[00:27:33] Gillis and the medical reviewer

[00:27:35] is Heidi

[00:27:37] Moad

[00:27:38] Heidi Moad

[00:27:39] so continuing with the article

[00:27:41] you've got the enabler

[00:27:43] the golden child and the scapegoat

[00:27:45] we've already talked about those

[00:27:47] but I wanted to go deeper into this

[00:27:50] how does this work in terms of the

[00:27:51] actual dynamic

[00:27:52] this is they're calling it structure

[00:27:54] here

[00:27:54] but I think it's more of a dynamic

[00:27:57] because your interactions are dynamic

[00:28:00] and structure is more like a shape

[00:28:02] it feels like something static

[00:28:04] so we're talking here about

[00:28:05] something that is changing

[00:28:07] and evolving

[00:28:08] and something that is structured

[00:28:10] around

[00:28:12] the dynamic

[00:28:13] that's the structure itself

[00:28:14] but the dynamic is what happens within

[00:28:17] and because of that structure

[00:28:19] so there's 10 things that

[00:28:20] the choosing therapy article goes over

[00:28:23] when it comes to structure

[00:28:24] it says a narcissistic family

[00:28:26] will often be full of deceit

[00:28:27] sometimes you're not even aware of it

[00:28:29] like I said

[00:28:30] when I realized what was happening

[00:28:31] in my family

[00:28:32] I was like oh my gosh

[00:28:34] on one level

[00:28:35] yes I was aware of it of course

[00:28:36] but on another

[00:28:37] I had been taught

[00:28:38] that our family

[00:28:40] didn't have problems

[00:28:41] or we had problems

[00:28:42] but we were good people

[00:28:43] that it was a healthy and loving family

[00:28:46] and that um

[00:28:46] it was

[00:28:47] that if there were any problems

[00:28:49] I was the one with the problem

[00:28:50] now I was never told that directly

[00:28:52] but I was told that implicitly

[00:28:53] that I was born defective

[00:28:55] and there was something wrong with me

[00:28:56] that's why I had emotional problems

[00:28:58] not because of anything that had happened

[00:28:59] in my childhood

[00:29:02] and when I woke up to

[00:29:04] and realized what had happened

[00:29:05] and that there was validity to the fact

[00:29:08] that I had been abused and neglected

[00:29:11] maybe not in visible ways

[00:29:12] but I had been

[00:29:14] it was alarm bells went off in my head

[00:29:17] and it I changed

[00:29:18] it changed my life forever

[00:29:19] in a good way

[00:29:20] but it's been very difficult too

[00:29:22] because I could never look at these

[00:29:24] some people in my life

[00:29:25] the same way again

[00:29:26] I couldn't

[00:29:27] you can't go back

[00:29:28] because if you go back

[00:29:29] it's more painful than

[00:29:30] where you were before

[00:29:31] you even knew what was going on

[00:29:33] you're responsible for that information

[00:29:35] you have to work on your healing

[00:29:36] after that

[00:29:37] and accept what you have come to understand

[00:29:41] it's hard

[00:29:41] it's painful

[00:29:42] but it's also empowering

[00:29:44] so back to the narcissistic family structure

[00:29:46] it says a narcissistic family structure

[00:29:48] will often be full of deceit

[00:29:50] even to those who are in it

[00:29:52] especially the survivors and the victims

[00:29:55] emotional abuse

[00:29:56] and multiple forms of narcissistic manipulation

[00:29:59] these dynamics are extremely dysfunctional

[00:30:01] and harmful

[00:30:02] for any family members involved

[00:30:04] no matter the position or quote

[00:30:05] role in the family system

[00:30:07] unhealthy communication

[00:30:09] poor boundaries

[00:30:09] or what we would call enmeshment

[00:30:13] and a need for control

[00:30:14] are some signs that a family is being governed by these

[00:30:18] maladaptive behaviors

[00:30:20] so 10 signs of a narcissistic family

[00:30:22] image is everything

[00:30:24] now I didn't think that that was true in my family

[00:30:26] because it was all about faith

[00:30:28] and it was all about

[00:30:29] God

[00:30:29] and it was all about church

[00:30:31] but looking back

[00:30:33] I can see how subtle it was

[00:30:35] but it was still about

[00:30:36] there's a narrative about what kind of family we are

[00:30:39] versus the reality of what kind of family we are

[00:30:41] and we have to keep that narrative going

[00:30:44] about what kind of family they wanted us to think we were

[00:30:46] instead of what kind of family we actually were

[00:30:49] so a narcissistic family is often obsessed with creating

[00:30:52] and keeping the quote perfect family image

[00:30:54] and even if it's not

[00:30:56] their children that think they're inherently defective

[00:31:00] but they don't think they were abused

[00:31:02] and they feel like there's something wrong with them

[00:31:05] and they have depression and anxiety and signs of PTSD

[00:31:07] but they don't believe they were abused

[00:31:09] you need to go back and look at your childhood

[00:31:11] and question that because chances are you probably were

[00:31:15] and it because it's that tricky

[00:31:17] it's that slippery

[00:31:18] it's that deceitful

[00:31:20] so despite perfection being unattainable

[00:31:23] and unrealistic

[00:31:24] a narcissist illogical false self

[00:31:26] needs the perfect image in order to present themselves

[00:31:29] appropriately to the world

[00:31:30] and everybody else in the family

[00:31:31] everything that they do has to serve that

[00:31:33] no matter how much it hurts them

[00:31:35] that was my words

[00:31:36] so choosing therapy number two

[00:31:38] lack of communication

[00:31:39] one of the major elements of a dysfunctional family

[00:31:42] is poor communication

[00:31:43] and a narcissistic family

[00:31:45] takes this to the extreme

[00:31:46] not only is there lack of communication

[00:31:49] but the communication that does take places

[00:31:51] often filled with triangulation and gaslighting

[00:31:54] triangulation is when you take two people

[00:31:57] and you turn them against each other for your own means

[00:32:00] gaslighting is when you make somebody doubt their own reality

[00:32:03] by getting a reaction out of them

[00:32:06] and then when they react that way

[00:32:07] as any human would

[00:32:08] then you say they're crazy

[00:32:09] and there's something wrong with them

[00:32:11] and often they'll do the tormenting in private

[00:32:13] and then do something to create

[00:32:15] the reaction subtly in public

[00:32:17] so that person explodes

[00:32:18] or has a reaction in public

[00:32:20] and then they can say see

[00:32:21] see what I have to deal with

[00:32:23] and they try to do what's Darvo

[00:32:24] which is I forgot the exact acronym

[00:32:28] but it's basically reverse victim

[00:32:30] and perpetrator

[00:32:32] and so you basically make somehow

[00:32:35] they find a way by the end of the conversation

[00:32:37] that when you're trying to confront them

[00:32:39] about some of their abuses

[00:32:40] you're somehow apologizing to them

[00:32:43] that's how it is

[00:32:44] so these tactics are used to maintain power and control

[00:32:47] pit family members against each other

[00:32:49] and keep confusion and chaos within the family system

[00:32:52] this creates anger

[00:32:54] mistrust confusion and chaos

[00:32:56] oh I understand chaos all right

[00:32:57] this further maintains the narcissists control

[00:33:02] so no clear boundaries is another one

[00:33:04] also known as enmeshment

[00:33:07] even within a family

[00:33:08] it's good to have healthy boundaries

[00:33:11] there are certain things you should never do

[00:33:12] there are certain things you should never say to each other

[00:33:15] and there are certain boundaries and desires

[00:33:16] that people have that you should not cross or disrespect

[00:33:19] and that's why I talk about agency

[00:33:22] so much in this podcast agency

[00:33:24] is your autonomy

[00:33:26] your personal rights

[00:33:27] your validity as a human being

[00:33:30] that your opinion and your feelings

[00:33:31] and your existence and your importance

[00:33:33] is just as valid

[00:33:34] and real as anybody else's

[00:33:37] so no clear boundaries it says

[00:33:38] in any healthy social system

[00:33:40] families included

[00:33:41] boundaries are respected and encouraged

[00:33:44] boundaries are what separates one person from another

[00:33:47] whether physically, emotionally, mentally or spiritually

[00:33:49] for example not touching someone without their consent

[00:33:53] not invading the personal space without their consent

[00:33:55] and respecting topics that

[00:33:57] people are not comfortable with

[00:34:00] however in a narcissistic family

[00:34:02] there are very few boundaries

[00:34:04] there could be some

[00:34:05] there were boundaries in my family

[00:34:06] and some of them were respected

[00:34:08] and others were not

[00:34:10] and any and all boundaries are often ignored

[00:34:12] and there is a lack of privacy for everyone

[00:34:14] but the narcissist

[00:34:15] this is damaging to a family system

[00:34:17] because it can create enmeshment trauma

[00:34:19] and it teaches children that their boundaries

[00:34:21] will not be respected

[00:34:23] and shows them that the world is an unsafe place

[00:34:25] this can also cause childhood trauma

[00:34:27] and additional mental health concerns

[00:34:29] and it can set children up for taking advantage

[00:34:32] being taken advantage of

[00:34:34] and other interpersonal relationships

[00:34:35] outside of the family

[00:34:36] and also if they become the narcissist

[00:34:38] do in the opposite

[00:34:40] number four surrogate spouse

[00:34:42] now this one's a little messed up

[00:34:43] but it's true

[00:34:45] one or less

[00:34:46] one of the less known family roles

[00:34:48] in narcissistic families

[00:34:49] is the role of quote surrogate spouse

[00:34:51] this role usually given to one of the children

[00:34:53] exists to support the narcissistic individuals

[00:34:56] emotional needs

[00:34:57] so we're not talking about something weird here

[00:34:59] even though you know it could be

[00:35:02] but in most cases it's just that the child

[00:35:06] has to fulfill and take care of the emotional needs

[00:35:09] of the adult

[00:35:10] and children should not have to do that

[00:35:12] it should be the other way around

[00:35:13] so it says because of this

[00:35:15] the child who is the surrogate spouse

[00:35:17] is often relied on for emotional support and comforting

[00:35:20] this place is an unfair burden on a child

[00:35:22] who is not yet mature enough to handle adult feelings

[00:35:24] and responsibilities

[00:35:26] children who are surrogate spouses

[00:35:27] frequently struggle with unresolved anxiety

[00:35:29] depression

[00:35:30] and self-esteem issues

[00:35:31] so a lot of times they're also the older sibling

[00:35:34] that takes care of all the other children

[00:35:36] in many cases

[00:35:37] if there's a narcissistic parent

[00:35:39] and then maybe a child

[00:35:40] one of the parents is not there

[00:35:42] or they have a drug problem

[00:35:45] an addiction problem

[00:35:45] or a severe mental health problem

[00:35:47] that's when a lot of times

[00:35:49] the surrogate spouse child

[00:35:51] will come in and take that role

[00:35:53] which they shouldn't have to do

[00:35:54] but they do

[00:35:55] number five control issues

[00:35:57] narcissists often exhibit

[00:35:58] often exhibit control issues

[00:36:01] within the family unit

[00:36:02] all families have different rules and expectations

[00:36:04] for those within the family

[00:36:06] for example some cultures

[00:36:07] older generations expect the children

[00:36:10] do not ask question

[00:36:12] do not question adults

[00:36:13] as this is seen as disrespectful

[00:36:15] however respect for elders

[00:36:17] is much different than the expectation

[00:36:18] within narcissistic family systems

[00:36:21] in these families

[00:36:22] no one can question anything

[00:36:23] no matter how dysfunctional

[00:36:25] bizarre or uncomfortable

[00:36:26] something may be

[00:36:27] to question

[00:36:28] is to undermine the authority of the narcissist

[00:36:30] which

[00:36:31] they take as a threat

[00:36:32] so that's control issues

[00:36:34] and they may control what you do too

[00:36:36] number six not good enough messages

[00:36:38] not good enough messages

[00:36:40] when a developing child

[00:36:41] isn't provided with

[00:36:42] unconditional love and value

[00:36:43] the child learns that love from their parents

[00:36:46] only comes if they are quote

[00:36:47] good enough

[00:36:48] whatever that might mean to the parent

[00:36:49] whether it's looks

[00:36:50] academic achievements

[00:36:52] career achievements

[00:36:54] what the work they do in the home

[00:36:56] taking care of everybody

[00:36:58] or whatever it might be

[00:36:59] their behavior

[00:36:59] but it says

[00:37:00] narcissistic families

[00:37:02] continually send the message

[00:37:03] that the children are not adequate

[00:37:04] which contributes to poor self-esteem

[00:37:06] self-image

[00:37:07] self-respect and self-compassion

[00:37:09] they may be also taught

[00:37:10] that they need the narcissist

[00:37:11] in order to make decisions

[00:37:13] or to survive

[00:37:13] because they are taught

[00:37:14] that they will always mess up

[00:37:16] and when they don't listen

[00:37:17] to the narcissist

[00:37:18] and follow their guidance

[00:37:19] that that's bad basically

[00:37:22] number seven unhelp the competition

[00:37:24] in these families siblings

[00:37:25] and other family members

[00:37:26] are often pitted against each other

[00:37:28] through unhealthy competition

[00:37:29] it's reinforced

[00:37:30] through the unhealthy communication dynamic

[00:37:33] dysfunctional dynamics

[00:37:34] within the family

[00:37:35] and the family roles

[00:37:36] that are reinforced

[00:37:37] through the family system

[00:37:38] often children of these families

[00:37:40] struggle to develop

[00:37:41] healthy relationships

[00:37:42] and attachments to others

[00:37:43] number eight secret keeping

[00:37:46] secrets are one of the major elements

[00:37:48] of a narcissistic family

[00:37:49] and this is something that

[00:37:52] I'm sharing a little more here

[00:37:53] than I usually do

[00:37:54] I'm not going to be specific

[00:37:55] but in the past

[00:37:57] I might not have been aware of secrets

[00:37:59] but there weren't that many

[00:38:00] as far as I could tell

[00:38:01] now my family is so riddled with secrets

[00:38:03] and keeping things from each other

[00:38:05] and well don't tell this person this

[00:38:07] and will I know this about that person

[00:38:09] and then or sharing stuff

[00:38:10] that they're not supposed to

[00:38:11] to me that I didn't want the burden of knowing

[00:38:14] there's so much of that

[00:38:16] in my family

[00:38:17] I can't even keep up with it all

[00:38:18] but it says secrets are

[00:38:20] the major elements

[00:38:21] of a narcissistic family system

[00:38:23] each member is expected to keep secrets

[00:38:25] in order to maintain the ideal public image

[00:38:27] that is protected

[00:38:29] the biggest secret is the fact

[00:38:30] that the family is dysfunctional

[00:38:32] which is hidden at every cost

[00:38:34] deception is reinforced

[00:38:35] through family roles

[00:38:36] manipulation and denial

[00:38:37] that is reinforced by the family members

[00:38:40] now that one of the first YouTube videos

[00:38:43] I ever did was the power

[00:38:44] the destructive power of denial

[00:38:46] the destructive power of denial

[00:38:48] so denial is more than a river in Egypt

[00:38:51] and a lot of people don't

[00:38:53] I mean that is one of the most

[00:38:57] hideously dysfunctional parts

[00:38:59] of a family dynamic

[00:39:00] and that I think is what left me

[00:39:02] in the dark for so long

[00:39:03] that I was involuntarily in denial

[00:39:05] because I'd been taught that denial

[00:39:06] because I'd been told all those things

[00:39:08] never happened and weren't true

[00:39:09] so I believed it

[00:39:10] because that was the root

[00:39:11] of everything I'd ever believed

[00:39:12] because that was my family

[00:39:14] so that was literally the core

[00:39:16] of my belief system

[00:39:16] so even as I became exposed to other

[00:39:19] ways of doing things

[00:39:21] and other ideas

[00:39:22] I still couldn't see it for so long

[00:39:23] but then I finally was able to see it one day

[00:39:26] literally one day I saw it

[00:39:27] I was like oh my god

[00:39:28] you know

[00:39:29] so if you like

[00:39:31] I will put it in the show notes

[00:39:32] and you can go to that older video

[00:39:34] the destructive power of denial

[00:39:36] and watch that

[00:39:37] and it'll tell you exactly

[00:39:38] how destructive denial is

[00:39:39] so adults are number nine

[00:39:42] in the choosing therapy article

[00:39:43] adults are emotionally reactive

[00:39:46] we all have reactions sometimes

[00:39:47] but this is talking about a pattern

[00:39:49] it says survivors of narcissistic families

[00:39:52] understand all too well that adults

[00:39:54] the adults frequently behave worse than the children

[00:39:57] while it is understandable

[00:39:58] for children to be emotionally reactive

[00:40:00] narcissistic parents often behave this way

[00:40:03] with limited insight into their behavior

[00:40:05] and little remorse

[00:40:06] for how their behavior affects others

[00:40:08] number 10 blackmail is common

[00:40:10] not surprisingly your feelings can be used

[00:40:13] against you

[00:40:13] vulnerabilities will be exploited

[00:40:15] to further the narcissist's control

[00:40:17] if a child shares that they are scared or embarrassed

[00:40:20] this can be used against them in a way

[00:40:22] as a way to establish dominance

[00:40:23] and remind the child who is in control

[00:40:26] and then the person says

[00:40:27] within my practice I've come across clients

[00:40:29] who have told me how they shared information

[00:40:31] with a parent in confidence

[00:40:32] only for it to be used publicly

[00:40:34] to ridicule them as punishment

[00:40:36] for a recent mishap

[00:40:37] I've had that happen but not with a parent

[00:40:40] in a very vicious way

[00:40:42] but clients are then humiliated

[00:40:45] and realized that even their parents were cruel

[00:40:47] and unsafe

[00:40:49] and so that is some of the

[00:40:55] so narcissistic family structure

[00:40:57] that's some signs of a narcissistic family structure

[00:41:01] I wanted to go over those with you

[00:41:02] so you could see some of the signs

[00:41:04] and not only know

[00:41:07] that it's there

[00:41:08] but know what to look for

[00:41:09] so you can start to deconstruct this

[00:41:11] if you're experiencing this in your own life

[00:41:14] to empower you to educate you

[00:41:16] and to help you to understand it more

[00:41:18] and then

[00:41:20] so some of the other roles of

[00:41:23] general roles of a narcissistic family dynamic

[00:41:27] for example the narcissist or the manipulator

[00:41:30] is usually what everything revolves around

[00:41:32] it's the one that causes all the chaos

[00:41:34] not that there's not problems in any family

[00:41:36] without a narcissist

[00:41:37] even some chaos and dysfunction

[00:41:39] I think we all have it

[00:41:40] like I said this is on a spectrum

[00:41:42] it's not black and white

[00:41:44] and so there are people that have higher

[00:41:46] narcissistic tendencies

[00:41:47] but you can still get along with them most of the time

[00:41:49] but maybe they just have some emotional problems

[00:41:51] and then there might be people with emotional problems

[00:41:54] that don't have narcissistic qualities

[00:41:55] and then there might be people with high

[00:41:57] narcissistic qualities

[00:41:58] that tend to get along well with people

[00:41:59] because they've learned the behaviors

[00:42:01] even if they don't have the emotional

[00:42:04] connection with people

[00:42:06] but they've learned the behaviors

[00:42:07] of how to operate in society

[00:42:08] so you have high functioning narcissists

[00:42:10] and you might even be able to have a relationship

[00:42:12] with them but they might not be your best friend

[00:42:14] and then you have the codependent

[00:42:16] that's usually the caretaker

[00:42:18] the person who tries to smooth things over

[00:42:21] the person who tries to make themselves

[00:42:23] whatever the narcissist or the stronger

[00:42:25] more dominant people in the family

[00:42:27] want them to be

[00:42:28] or if they perceive that they want them to be

[00:42:31] that's why communication is important

[00:42:33] you can have one person who has a strong personality

[00:42:35] and another person who's more laid back

[00:42:37] and more quiet

[00:42:38] and that doesn't mean that there's a narcissist

[00:42:40] and a codependent there

[00:42:41] and they may get along well

[00:42:43] and their opposites may compliment one another

[00:42:46] they may bring that high strung person down a level

[00:42:49] and then the more outgoing dominant person

[00:42:52] may teach the codependent

[00:42:54] or not the codependent but the quiet person

[00:42:55] to be more outspoken and to have more confidence

[00:42:57] so there's a dynamic there that can be healthy

[00:43:00] but when it's taken to an extreme

[00:43:02] on those ranges of narcissism

[00:43:05] that's when you get into abuse

[00:43:06] and stuff like that

[00:43:08] so flying monkeys are another one

[00:43:10] and enablers

[00:43:11] flying monkeys and enablers are the ones

[00:43:12] that bow down to the narcissist

[00:43:14] do their bidding

[00:43:15] try to keep everybody else in line

[00:43:17] and try to do the bidding of the narcissist themselves

[00:43:21] where the narcissist can't or won't do it themselves

[00:43:24] towards the other people in the family

[00:43:25] who are either scared

[00:43:27] or not saying anything

[00:43:29] or even trying to fight against these dynamics

[00:43:33] because they're the truth seeker

[00:43:35] right we're truth seekers in this podcast

[00:43:37] so that's an actual role here

[00:43:39] so that is the general roles in a narcissistic family dynamic

[00:43:43] and now let's look at some of the unwritten rules

[00:43:46] of a narcissistic family dynamic

[00:43:48] there's another article in psychology today

[00:43:51] that talks about this

[00:43:53] and so the rules here though

[00:43:55] are things that you won't question

[00:43:58] or think there's anything wrong with

[00:44:00] if you've been told they're normal

[00:44:02] and that's what I was told

[00:44:04] and that was my experience

[00:44:06] I'll say it again because this is really important

[00:44:08] you won't question these dynamics at first

[00:44:10] or think there's anything wrong with them

[00:44:13] at least consciously

[00:44:14] on an unconscious level you might

[00:44:16] if you're told your whole life that they're normal

[00:44:18] this is where gaslighting comes in

[00:44:20] it may not even be intentional gaslighting

[00:44:22] it's often unconscious by the people that do it

[00:44:25] because they're trying to cover up their flaws

[00:44:26] and they're scared to be exposed

[00:44:29] so um

[00:44:30] and then you will think you are the problem

[00:44:33] when you're the child

[00:44:33] you'll grow up thinking you're the problem

[00:44:35] because you'll be taught that implicitly

[00:44:37] or explicitly

[00:44:38] so that's where the gaslighting comes in

[00:44:40] and you will think you are the problem

[00:44:42] so let's look at this unwritten rules of

[00:44:44] narcissistic family dynamic

[00:44:46] because I think this might be the most important

[00:44:48] part of all of it

[00:44:50] so there is in the psychology today article

[00:44:53] by Julie Hall

[00:44:55] by Julie L. Hall

[00:44:56] the 12 rules of a dysfunctional

[00:45:00] narcissistic family

[00:45:01] so acceptance is conditional

[00:45:03] and you must take sides is what she says

[00:45:05] but a couple of things to note here

[00:45:08] key points

[00:45:09] narcissistic homes often have unspoken

[00:45:11] so it's unconscious

[00:45:13] and there's denial sometimes that those even exist

[00:45:15] even when you question them

[00:45:17] bring them up or ask about them

[00:45:19] sometimes the narcissist or other people in the family

[00:45:22] will either be aware of them and deny them

[00:45:24] or not be aware of them and thus deny them

[00:45:26] because they don't know they exist

[00:45:27] so they're often unspoken

[00:45:29] and I would also argue sometimes

[00:45:32] unconscious rules of engagement

[00:45:34] that dictate interactions among family members

[00:45:37] so narcissistic homes often have unspoken

[00:45:40] rules of engagement

[00:45:41] that dictate interactions among family members

[00:45:43] some of these rules may include

[00:45:45] submitting to the dominant narcissist authority

[00:45:47] in taking sides

[00:45:49] and in these families

[00:45:50] rage is often normalized

[00:45:52] and denial may be rampant

[00:45:54] so the unspoken rules

[00:45:56] acceptance is conditional

[00:45:59] to gain acceptance children must comply

[00:46:01] with the family narrative

[00:46:02] there's a family narrative

[00:46:03] and like I said it usually doesn't run

[00:46:06] right on the surface

[00:46:07] you have to dig and burrow down

[00:46:09] and then move forward

[00:46:11] there's a thread or a

[00:46:12] a narrative there that runs underneath

[00:46:15] the surface and is unconscious

[00:46:18] because people will deny

[00:46:19] in these families will deny that these things exist

[00:46:22] that's why you have to look at the evidence

[00:46:23] not what people say

[00:46:25] look at the evidence of behavior

[00:46:27] of dynamics

[00:46:28] of experiences

[00:46:30] trust your emotions

[00:46:31] trust your red flags

[00:46:33] trust yourself that if something is wrong

[00:46:35] it probably is

[00:46:36] I'm not talking about paranoia

[00:46:38] there are people that are paranoid

[00:46:39] I'm talking about genuine things that are happening

[00:46:42] that people will say don't happen

[00:46:44] so it says to gain acceptance

[00:46:46] children must comply with the family narrative

[00:46:48] and value system

[00:46:49] expressions of differences are rejected

[00:46:51] and pathologized

[00:46:53] I was actually

[00:46:54] I had anxiety and depression growing up

[00:46:56] really bad

[00:46:57] and I was told that I must have been born with them

[00:46:59] and even though some people may have a propensity towards them

[00:47:02] I was not born with those things

[00:47:04] I can tell you that now

[00:47:05] and I believe that

[00:47:06] I've thought I was defective

[00:47:08] I thought there was something wrong with me

[00:47:09] and I didn't realize it was what had been done to me

[00:47:12] and the circumstances that I was in

[00:47:14] that had created those dynamics in my own mind

[00:47:17] and I had to take responsibility for that

[00:47:19] but it was not my fault

[00:47:21] and so if this is happening to you

[00:47:23] this is not your fault

[00:47:25] if that happened in your family

[00:47:26] I'll say it again

[00:47:27] it's not your fault

[00:47:29] so number two

[00:47:30] submission is required

[00:47:31] everyone is expected to submit to the dominant narcissist authority

[00:47:35] no matter how ignorant arbitrary cruel or destructive it is

[00:47:39] number three

[00:47:40] someone must be blamed for problems

[00:47:41] when something bad happens from a lost job

[00:47:44] to a spilled glass of milk

[00:47:45] someone must be blamed for it

[00:47:48] and I found that in my own life

[00:47:50] that I project that behavior

[00:47:52] because I grew up in that dynamic

[00:47:55] and now when something goes wrong

[00:47:56] I have to blame somebody

[00:47:57] and I'll be honest

[00:47:58] God forgive me but I often blamed God

[00:48:00] and my relationship with God has been strained

[00:48:02] and I'm working to rehabilitate it

[00:48:05] and I want to work on that enough

[00:48:07] that I can create a course for you on it too

[00:48:09] because this is taboo

[00:48:11] people don't want to talk about this

[00:48:12] but there are so many Christians

[00:48:13] that are so pissed off at God

[00:48:15] they blame God

[00:48:16] they hate God

[00:48:17] they're mad at God

[00:48:18] and yet they love him and worship him

[00:48:19] and want to follow him

[00:48:20] and obey him at the same time

[00:48:21] it's so messed up

[00:48:23] and I want to help you

[00:48:26] to heal that

[00:48:27] and I do plan on creating a course

[00:48:29] about restoring our emotional relationship with God

[00:48:32] and working on the projection

[00:48:34] from the abuse that we experienced

[00:48:36] that we project on to God

[00:48:38] because that automatically happens

[00:48:40] we project whatever we've been talked

[00:48:42] and so a lot of times when bad things happen

[00:48:45] we blame God

[00:48:45] even if God had nothing to do with it

[00:48:48] so here it says typically

[00:48:49] there is a family scapegoat

[00:48:51] who is made to bear the main burden

[00:48:53] of family's problems, frustrations

[00:48:54] and unhappiness

[00:48:55] as well as the dominant narcissist projected

[00:48:59] see

[00:49:00] they projected their self loathing on to you

[00:49:03] and then you project that on to something

[00:49:05] or someone else

[00:49:06] so you need someone to blame

[00:49:09] because you're taught that

[00:49:11] number four

[00:49:11] vulnerability is dangerous

[00:49:13] mistakes accidents and weaknesses

[00:49:15] even ones you take responsibility for

[00:49:18] are cause for shaming treatment

[00:49:20] that can persist for years

[00:49:22] number five

[00:49:23] you must take sides

[00:49:24] justice there is always blame and shame

[00:49:27] there are always sides

[00:49:28] in other words

[00:49:29] instead of being a family

[00:49:31] and let's work this out together

[00:49:32] unless problem solve here

[00:49:34] let's instead point fingers and blame

[00:49:38] and I saw that a lot growing up

[00:49:40] well you did this

[00:49:41] and you did that

[00:49:42] and sometimes it's just bickering

[00:49:43] sometimes it's just silly bickering

[00:49:45] and squabbling

[00:49:46] I get that

[00:49:46] and it doesn't really cause any long-term damage

[00:49:48] but when it happens all the time

[00:49:50] or when it gets really ugly

[00:49:51] it can be very bad

[00:49:53] it says if you are not the dominant narcissist side

[00:49:56] you are wrong

[00:49:57] children often feel forced to choose between parents

[00:49:59] siblings and other family members

[00:50:01] number six

[00:50:02] there is never enough love and respect to go around

[00:50:04] renewable resources and healthy families

[00:50:07] love and respect are limited

[00:50:09] to the narcissist

[00:50:10] and whomever else is deemed worthy

[00:50:12] usually a favored golden child

[00:50:14] respect for one person means disrespect for another

[00:50:17] so in other words

[00:50:18] it's black and white

[00:50:19] it's either or

[00:50:20] you're either in or you're out

[00:50:22] and love and respect

[00:50:23] yes

[00:50:24] there's no shortage of those

[00:50:25] in a place where there's love

[00:50:27] there's no shortage of any of those

[00:50:29] but in a narcissistic family

[00:50:31] there is a shortage of those

[00:50:32] and so people don't get any

[00:50:35] so number seven

[00:50:36] feelings are wrong

[00:50:38] now when we talk about

[00:50:40] I'm not a parent

[00:50:40] okay so I'm not going to sit here and act

[00:50:42] like I know what it's like to raise children

[00:50:44] I have family members

[00:50:46] and children who have children

[00:50:47] I have kept and

[00:50:49] baby sat children

[00:50:50] and

[00:50:52] but I know this from my own childhood

[00:50:54] but when a child has a tantrum

[00:50:57] or something happens where their

[00:50:59] emotions are maybe they're misbehaving

[00:51:01] and their emotions are misplaced

[00:51:03] telling them that their feelings are wrong

[00:51:05] does not help

[00:51:06] you can set a boundary

[00:51:08] tell them the kind of behavior that

[00:51:09] they need to have

[00:51:10] help them work through their emotion

[00:51:13] and explain to them

[00:51:14] why their behavior needs to be

[00:51:16] changed

[00:51:17] and still validate their feelings

[00:51:20] as a human being

[00:51:21] if that makes sense

[00:51:22] so you can say somebody's feelings are

[00:51:24] valid

[00:51:25] and still show them a better way to

[00:51:28] respond

[00:51:28] right

[00:51:29] you can do that for yourself too

[00:51:31] and that's what healing is all about

[00:51:32] so in a narcissistic family though

[00:51:35] feelings are wrong

[00:51:37] the feelings that make us human

[00:51:38] help us connect and get our needs

[00:51:40] met and protect us from harm

[00:51:41] are selfish and must be repressed

[00:51:43] are selfish and must be

[00:51:45] repressed

[00:51:46] only the narcissist has free reign

[00:51:48] to express their feelings

[00:51:49] have emotional reactions

[00:51:51] and make demands

[00:51:52] so they're like a black hole that

[00:51:54] everything else in the family revolves

[00:51:56] around

[00:51:56] number eight

[00:51:57] competition not cooperation rules

[00:51:59] the day

[00:52:00] one upmanship

[00:52:01] favoritism

[00:52:02] and constant comparison

[00:52:04] create a harshly competitive

[00:52:05] environment that undermines trust

[00:52:07] and breeds hostility and betrayal

[00:52:09] number nine

[00:52:10] appearances are more important than

[00:52:12] substance

[00:52:13] even if everyone is suffering

[00:52:14] they must smile for the family photo

[00:52:17] wish I could say that didn't

[00:52:18] literally happen

[00:52:19] for me but it did

[00:52:21] I remember a photo like that

[00:52:23] number 10

[00:52:24] rage is normalized

[00:52:25] everyone is expected to swallow and

[00:52:27] endure the dominant narcissist

[00:52:28] irrational explosive

[00:52:30] and perhaps also violent rage

[00:52:32] this may be magnified by other forms

[00:52:34] of mental illness

[00:52:35] and or addiction

[00:52:37] number 11

[00:52:38] this is one I've honed in a lot

[00:52:41] denial is rampant

[00:52:43] to sustain the dominant narcissist's

[00:52:45] control over the family

[00:52:46] there is denial of abusive incidents

[00:52:48] the continual atmosphere

[00:52:50] fear of fear

[00:52:51] the ongoing mistreatment of the scapegoat

[00:52:54] and routine forms of neglect

[00:52:55] so let me repeat that one

[00:52:57] denial is rampant

[00:52:58] so if you're

[00:52:59] knowing something is wrong when you were growing up

[00:53:01] and you have mental health issues

[00:53:03] but you were told that there was nothing wrong

[00:53:05] here are some things you might want to look at

[00:53:08] in your own family

[00:53:09] journal about them pray about them

[00:53:11] talk to a therapist about them

[00:53:13] and just get these out

[00:53:14] and get clarity on them

[00:53:15] abusive incidents

[00:53:18] the continual atmosphere of fear

[00:53:22] the ongoing mistreatment of the scapegoat

[00:53:25] could that have been you

[00:53:26] I'm not trying to put ideas in your head

[00:53:28] if it didn't happen it didn't happen

[00:53:29] but look at the evidence

[00:53:30] look at the patterns

[00:53:31] look at what happened over time

[00:53:34] and routine forms of neglect

[00:53:36] that doesn't mean you were starved

[00:53:38] or you didn't go to the doctor

[00:53:39] or you didn't go to school

[00:53:40] or you never had a family vacation

[00:53:41] you may have had all those things

[00:53:43] but we're also talking about emotional neglect

[00:53:46] we're also talking about

[00:53:48] human interaction

[00:53:50] and things like that

[00:53:51] number 12 there is no safety

[00:53:53] although the scapegoat is targeted

[00:53:55] with the most abuse

[00:53:56] everyone is on high hyper alert

[00:53:59] because no one is safe from blame and rage

[00:54:02] so those are the 12

[00:54:05] unspoken rules of a narcissistic family

[00:54:08] acceptance is conditional

[00:54:09] submission is required

[00:54:11] someone must be blamed for problems

[00:54:13] except for me if I'm the narcissist right

[00:54:15] vulnerability is dangerous

[00:54:17] keep in mind that vulnerability can be

[00:54:18] healthy in a safe environment

[00:54:21] and even necessary

[00:54:22] well um

[00:54:22] brunette brown talks about that right

[00:54:25] you must take sides number five

[00:54:27] number six there was never enough love

[00:54:29] and respect to go around

[00:54:30] number seven feelings are wrong

[00:54:32] number eight competition

[00:54:34] not cooperation rules the day

[00:54:36] that's where you might see a lot of

[00:54:38] finger pointing and name calling

[00:54:40] and blaming instead of

[00:54:42] if there's a problem let's figure out a way

[00:54:44] to solve this what are we

[00:54:45] what are we going to do

[00:54:46] number nine appearances are more important

[00:54:49] than substance

[00:54:50] so there's shallowness there

[00:54:51] number 10 rage is normalized

[00:54:53] number 11 denial is rampant

[00:54:56] and number 12 there is no safety

[00:54:58] so those are the 12 rules of a dysfunctional

[00:55:02] narcissistic family by Julie Hall

[00:55:04] in psychology today

[00:55:06] and that just gives you an idea

[00:55:07] of some of the rules that you might have had in your family

[00:55:10] if you were brought up in a narcissistic family

[00:55:13] with that kind of dynamic

[00:55:14] and that can help you to start deconstructing that

[00:55:17] and understanding those different components

[00:55:19] and seeing the connections between those behaviors

[00:55:21] and dynamics

[00:55:22] and how that impacted you

[00:55:23] and then take it a step further

[00:55:25] and think about

[00:55:26] how you're doing

[00:55:28] having behaviors and beliefs and emotions now

[00:55:31] because of your PTSD

[00:55:33] that were caused by that once you understand that

[00:55:35] then you can start knowing where to target it

[00:55:37] and release it right

[00:55:39] so the last thing I wanted to talk about

[00:55:41] is when a sibling is a narcissist

[00:55:43] and when a parent is a narcissist

[00:55:46] so when a sibling is a narcissist

[00:55:47] and when a parent is a narcissist

[00:55:48] to wrap up this talk

[00:55:50] all right thank you for following me so far

[00:55:52] let's go ahead and look at that

[00:55:54] there are two articles

[00:55:56] one of them is when a sibling is a narcissist

[00:55:59] this is in the Taylor counseling group

[00:56:01] and it's by Taylor counseling group

[00:56:03] Dr. Christopher Taylor

[00:56:05] and it's the impact of a narcissistic sibling

[00:56:08] the impact of a narcissistic sibling

[00:56:11] science that you have a narcissistic sibling

[00:56:15] so when you have a sibling that's a narcissist

[00:56:18] or you may have a parent that's a narcissist

[00:56:20] or both in some cases

[00:56:24] so ways to think back on growing up with your sibling

[00:56:27] it says here are a few questions you can ask

[00:56:29] to determine whether or not they showed

[00:56:31] narcissistic tendencies

[00:56:32] keep in mind we're not trying to label people here

[00:56:35] we're not trying to diagnose people

[00:56:36] I'm not trying to diagnose people

[00:56:38] I'm talking more about behaviors and patterns

[00:56:41] but it says did they have empathy for you and others

[00:56:44] were they ever cruel or threatening

[00:56:46] also again look for patterns

[00:56:48] not for isolated incidents as much

[00:56:51] did you feel scared or on edge around them

[00:56:54] were they envious or highly competitive

[00:56:57] did they ever try to control or manipulate you

[00:57:00] so they may do some of these things

[00:57:02] but not all of them

[00:57:03] or maybe worse in one area than another

[00:57:05] so most narcissists maintain control

[00:57:09] in a manipulative emotional way with mind games

[00:57:11] for example they may gas like you

[00:57:13] making you feel guilty

[00:57:15] after they've done something wrong

[00:57:16] they might use triangulation

[00:57:18] where they use a third person to take their side

[00:57:20] and pressure or control you

[00:57:23] so if you grew up with a narcissistic sibling

[00:57:25] you are likely you may have felt

[00:57:28] like you were always walking on eggshells

[00:57:30] how they affect your mental health

[00:57:33] they thrive on bullying

[00:57:34] sometimes they can be openly aggressive

[00:57:38] sometimes it can be more hidden in some ways

[00:57:43] they'll twist a situation

[00:57:44] so you end up apologizing for how they made

[00:57:47] you feel is an example of that

[00:57:49] in sibling relationships there's often trauma bonding

[00:57:52] and I'm going to do or will have done

[00:57:54] a talk on this as well

[00:57:58] I'm trying to cover a lot of these areas

[00:57:59] that are similarly connected

[00:58:01] so that these can all come out around the same time

[00:58:03] but it says for some people growing up

[00:58:05] with a narcissistic sibling

[00:58:06] may start a pattern of trauma bonding

[00:58:08] your sibling may think they love you

[00:58:10] but then turn around and treat you like a piece of trash

[00:58:12] trauma bonding is a result of emotional abuse

[00:58:15] and manipulation where the perpetrator hurts you

[00:58:17] but then follows up with positive reinforcement

[00:58:19] like kindness or acceptance

[00:58:21] is it a complete

[00:58:22] it is a complete mind game

[00:58:24] because the victim wants the positive results

[00:58:26] that come after the abuse

[00:58:27] they'll continue to allow more abuse

[00:58:29] over time it becomes more and more difficult

[00:58:32] to see reality

[00:58:32] and break the cycle of trauma bonding

[00:58:34] so one reason that you're in this family dynamic

[00:58:37] and you cannot be aware of it

[00:58:39] even when you're studying this stuff

[00:58:40] is because you're so immersed in it

[00:58:42] you can't see the forest for the trees

[00:58:44] right

[00:58:46] so it goes on and talks about how

[00:58:48] you might have low self-esteem

[00:58:50] if you had a narcissistic sibling

[00:58:52] impact on parental relationships

[00:58:54] it says sometimes your sibling is narcissistic

[00:58:56] because they copied the behavior of a parent

[00:58:58] that's very common

[00:58:59] and that's why you may have more than one

[00:59:01] if one or both of your parents had narcissistic tendencies

[00:59:04] in addition to a sibling

[00:59:05] you may have been scapegoated by the whole family

[00:59:08] so in some cases you may be the only person

[00:59:11] that's not a narcissist or doesn't have those tendencies

[00:59:14] recognizing and creating boundaries for yourself

[00:59:16] is the first step towards healing

[00:59:17] from this kind of toxic family dynamic

[00:59:20] but that doesn't mean that there may have been other people

[00:59:23] that were not like that in your family too

[00:59:25] so I'm not seeing everybody's like that

[00:59:29] so it says however your sibling may have been the only family

[00:59:33] member with narcissistic tendencies

[00:59:35] so they may have manipulated your parents or other relatives as well

[00:59:39] so dealing with narcissistic sibling relationships

[00:59:43] that's difficult

[00:59:44] it says what's more important is to remember that

[00:59:46] narcissists

[00:59:48] who the narcissist is

[00:59:50] and that you cannot change them

[00:59:52] the best thing you can do is create boundaries

[00:59:54] to protect yourself in the relationship

[00:59:56] with siblings this can also feel like betrayal

[00:59:58] of the whole family

[01:00:00] however a hard boundary is sometimes the only way to keep yourself safe

[01:00:04] from falling back into past patterns of manipulation and abuse

[01:00:08] ask yourself how much interaction can you handle

[01:00:11] with your sibling right now

[01:00:12] and actively pursue healing the sense of self

[01:00:15] so I'm going to tell you this straight up

[01:00:18] if you somebody is that messed up

[01:00:21] and every time you end up back around them

[01:00:23] you fall into old patterns

[01:00:24] you get anxious

[01:00:25] you get antsy

[01:00:26] you're scared

[01:00:27] you're angry

[01:00:28] you you're flustered

[01:00:29] you react

[01:00:31] if you're around somebody who sets you off like that

[01:00:33] consistently and you never feel safe around them

[01:00:35] and you're always walking on eggshells around them

[01:00:38] they are going to try to make you guilty

[01:00:40] when you set a boundary

[01:00:41] and chances are when you set a boundary

[01:00:43] they're going to try to plow right through it

[01:00:45] you know why I understand it from experience

[01:00:46] you have to set a hard line in the sand

[01:00:49] and do not let up

[01:00:51] they will try to wear you down over time

[01:00:53] I'm talking about the extreme people okay

[01:00:55] they'll try to wear you down over time

[01:00:58] do not let them hold the line

[01:01:01] and hold it permanently

[01:01:02] hold the line and hold it permanently

[01:01:05] do not let them weasel their way back into your life

[01:01:08] if they're that extremely dysfunctional toxic and cruel

[01:01:11] it is not worth it

[01:01:13] you are not betraying them

[01:01:14] you are not betraying your family

[01:01:16] because there is no way to have a functional relationship

[01:01:19] with somebody like that

[01:01:20] that is not your fault

[01:01:21] you cannot change them

[01:01:22] there is nothing you can do about it

[01:01:24] that is harsh but it's true

[01:01:26] and that's okay

[01:01:28] you can love yourself and set a boundary

[01:01:30] and say no

[01:01:32] and when that person tries to manipulate their way back in

[01:01:35] do not fall for it

[01:01:36] you can gray rock them

[01:01:38] gray rocking is when you say yes

[01:01:39] no

[01:01:40] you're courteous

[01:01:41] you talk about

[01:01:41] you talk about neutral topics

[01:01:44] you don't get into anything personal

[01:01:45] do not give them any information

[01:01:47] or share any emotions with them

[01:01:48] you sort of keep a blank demeanor

[01:01:51] that's just courteous and straightforward

[01:01:55] and that if you do have to interact

[01:01:57] that's the best way to be like

[01:01:58] hey how are you doing

[01:02:00] the talk today isn't it

[01:02:02] that was a great meal that we had

[01:02:04] you know you just keep it very casual

[01:02:06] and very impersonal

[01:02:07] and if they try to drag you in

[01:02:09] pull it back

[01:02:10] don't let them

[01:02:11] do not let them

[01:02:13] so those are some of the things that happen

[01:02:15] if you happen to have a sibling

[01:02:17] that is a narcissist

[01:02:19] so last one

[01:02:21] last one let's talk about what to happen

[01:02:23] what happens if you have a parent

[01:02:24] that's a narcissist

[01:02:26] narcissistic parents

[01:02:27] traits signs and how to deal with one

[01:02:29] so

[01:02:31] it's in this is choosing therapy

[01:02:33] this is another choosing therapy article

[01:02:35] called narcissistic parents

[01:02:36] traits signs and how to deal with one

[01:02:39] and it's by Nick Pungie Thomas

[01:02:43] and the medical reviewer is Pat Bass the third

[01:02:46] okay and this is in choosing therapy

[01:02:48] and it says narcissistic parents are

[01:02:51] incredibly possessive critical

[01:02:52] and controlling of their children

[01:02:54] these parents fear children becoming

[01:02:56] independent

[01:02:56] and will humiliate or shame them to

[01:02:58] prevent this from happening

[01:03:00] being raised by narcissistic parents

[01:03:02] may result in poor self-esteem

[01:03:04] overachieving tendencies

[01:03:07] or self-sabotaging behavior in adulthood

[01:03:10] so a narcissistic parent

[01:03:12] talking about somebody with extreme

[01:03:13] narcissistic qualities or narcissistic

[01:03:16] personality disorder

[01:03:17] narcissistic mothers and fathers may

[01:03:19] manifest these traits in unique ways

[01:03:21] and I do want to talk more about the

[01:03:23] dynamics when you have a narcissistic

[01:03:25] mother

[01:03:25] a narcissistic father

[01:03:27] a narcissistic brother

[01:03:29] a narcissistic sister

[01:03:31] and sons and daughters as well

[01:03:34] in the future I want to break these

[01:03:36] down even more with the family dynamics

[01:03:37] because they are different

[01:03:39] based on gender

[01:03:40] but not always it's

[01:03:43] just that there are certain tendencies

[01:03:44] that tend to come out more

[01:03:46] with men maybe then with women and

[01:03:48] vice versa

[01:03:49] okay

[01:03:49] so common traits of narcissistic parents

[01:03:53] inflated sense of self-importance it says

[01:03:55] constantly seeking to be more successful

[01:03:58] than others

[01:03:58] sense of entitlement

[01:04:00] desire to associate with people of

[01:04:02] high status

[01:04:03] need for excessive admiration

[01:04:05] exploitation of others for personal

[01:04:07] gain

[01:04:08] lack of empathy and arrogant behaviors

[01:04:10] and attitudes

[01:04:11] signs

[01:04:13] of a narcissistic parent there's 23 I

[01:04:15] will not go into detail about these so

[01:04:17] let me just list them

[01:04:18] they need to be the center of attention

[01:04:20] even if they take it from their child

[01:04:21] you're supposed to

[01:04:22] lift up your child and give them

[01:04:24] attention right nope

[01:04:26] not with the narcissist

[01:04:27] number two they are immature and selfish

[01:04:30] number three they blame others for

[01:04:32] their own behaviors

[01:04:33] think about how this works with a

[01:04:35] parent and a child when this happens

[01:04:36] number four they show little concern

[01:04:39] for others needs or their children's

[01:04:40] feelings

[01:04:41] number five they play favorites maybe even

[01:04:44] among their children

[01:04:45] number six they use you their child for

[01:04:47] personal gain

[01:04:48] number seven they are manipulative and

[01:04:50] exploitative

[01:04:52] like maybe if a parent gets older and a

[01:04:55] child has to distance themselves from

[01:04:56] the parent because they're so abusive

[01:04:58] emotionally

[01:04:59] and then they come and visit maybe

[01:05:02] three times a year instead of once a

[01:05:04] month the mom be like oh i'm getting

[01:05:06] older and you're just leaving me and

[01:05:08] i'm so neglected and i'm so lonely

[01:05:10] it's not like a genuine desire that

[01:05:12] she's expressing it's like the way

[01:05:13] she does it

[01:05:14] she's trying to get you to come back in

[01:05:16] more because she wants you to control

[01:05:19] you

[01:05:19] right and manipulate you and make you

[01:05:21] feel bad

[01:05:21] now if you are in a situation where

[01:05:25] you just can't can't be around that

[01:05:27] person because they're abusive

[01:05:28] that's understandable

[01:05:30] that's different than just neglecting

[01:05:32] an older parent who

[01:05:33] isn't that way that isn't really

[01:05:35] abusive or maybe they're just quirky

[01:05:37] number eight they are obsessed with

[01:05:39] maintaining the family's image or

[01:05:41] their perceived image usually

[01:05:42] number seven they use guilt trips to

[01:05:45] get what they want just what i was

[01:05:46] saying right

[01:05:47] fear obligation and guilt fog is an

[01:05:50] acronym fear obligation and guilt

[01:05:52] narcissists use that a lot

[01:05:54] and it's used to exploit christians

[01:05:56] and christian empaths especially

[01:05:58] again

[01:06:00] i have or will put out a podcast

[01:06:02] episode on that i will put it in

[01:06:04] the show notes if you want to

[01:06:05] learn more about guilt tripping

[01:06:06] and how to protect yourself from it

[01:06:08] fear obligation and guilt is called

[01:06:10] fog and that's exactly what it does to

[01:06:12] your mind

[01:06:13] but it says guilt tripping is an

[01:06:15] emotional manipulation technique

[01:06:17] narcissists use to inflate their ego

[01:06:19] and feel superior

[01:06:20] this behavior also allows them to

[01:06:22] maintain constant power and control

[01:06:24] narcissistic parents may guilt trip

[01:06:26] children into giving into demands or

[01:06:28] meeting expectations

[01:06:29] for example they may see a child is

[01:06:31] in grateful if their child refuses to

[01:06:33] complete a certain task

[01:06:35] number 10 their love is conditional

[01:06:39] with parents love should not come with

[01:06:41] conditions in terms it says

[01:06:42] however narcissistic parents view love

[01:06:44] as an exploitation tool

[01:06:46] so in other words their relationship

[01:06:49] with their children instead of being

[01:06:50] unconditional love is transactional

[01:06:52] your relationship with your kids

[01:06:54] should not be transactional

[01:06:56] unless like i said if you're

[01:06:58] setting a boundary it may have to be

[01:07:00] but that's different because that

[01:07:01] person has made it where there's no

[01:07:02] other way to do it

[01:07:03] right for the people that are

[01:07:05] trying to tolerate that person

[01:07:07] and still maintain some kind of contact

[01:07:09] if that's possible

[01:07:11] number 11 they will do anything to be

[01:07:14] quote the best

[01:07:15] number 12 they put you down and lower

[01:07:18] your confidence

[01:07:19] number 13 they are neglectful and

[01:07:21] never present when needed

[01:07:22] in other words

[01:07:24] when they need you you sure as hell

[01:07:26] better be there but when they need

[01:07:27] you forget about it it don't matter

[01:07:30] number 14 they limit your time together

[01:07:33] number and that's not about setting

[01:07:35] healthy boundaries that's about

[01:07:37] they won't spend time with their children

[01:07:39] if it doesn't fit their personal agenda

[01:07:41] they may also restrict family time

[01:07:43] to manipulate children into fulfilling

[01:07:45] their needs and requests

[01:07:46] number 15 they are allowed to be

[01:07:48] emotional but you are not

[01:07:50] number 16 they become annoyed when

[01:07:52] asked for attention

[01:07:54] so if you're a child and you ask

[01:07:56] for attention all parents are going

[01:07:57] to get annoyed when they're tired

[01:07:59] they're busy there's so much going

[01:08:00] on

[01:08:00] but this is a pattern and it's like

[01:08:03] the main reaction that they have

[01:08:05] number 17 they are codependent

[01:08:07] number 18 they publicly embarrass you

[01:08:10] number 19 they have poor boundaries and

[01:08:12] overstep yours

[01:08:13] if you better respect theirs but don't

[01:08:17] but don't you dare sit any with them

[01:08:19] number 20 they are extremely jealous

[01:08:22] and possessive of others

[01:08:23] they might be the kind with their

[01:08:25] spouse where if the person is even

[01:08:27] having a friendly conversation with

[01:08:29] somebody of the opposite sex in

[01:08:30] public in a harmless way

[01:08:32] they'll think that that person

[01:08:34] they're having an affair

[01:08:35] it's ridiculous stuff that they think

[01:08:37] number 21 they view you as a source

[01:08:39] of validation in other words

[01:08:41] you're their supply

[01:08:42] for them to feel better about

[01:08:44] themselves

[01:08:45] number 22 they expect you to play

[01:08:48] the caregiver role

[01:08:49] number 23 they gas like you

[01:08:51] so they covertly sow seeds of doubt

[01:08:55] in a targeted individual

[01:08:57] making them question their own

[01:08:58] memory perception or judgment

[01:09:00] let me slow down in number 23

[01:09:01] this is the last one

[01:09:02] narcissistic gaslighting is part of the

[01:09:05] denial family narrative

[01:09:07] so gaslighting doesn't just happen

[01:09:09] from one individual to another

[01:09:11] it can happen unconsciously and

[01:09:13] unintentionally or consciously and

[01:09:15] intentionally

[01:09:16] with a group towards one person or a

[01:09:19] larger group towards a smaller group

[01:09:21] of people in a family

[01:09:22] so also in cultural systems this

[01:09:25] happens but it's a form of

[01:09:26] manipulation

[01:09:27] in which a person or group

[01:09:29] covertly or secretly

[01:09:31] sows seeds of doubt in a targeted

[01:09:34] individual

[01:09:35] making them question their own memory

[01:09:37] perception or judgment

[01:09:39] I was the person that got forgotten

[01:09:41] about ignored

[01:09:42] and neglected

[01:09:43] and I just stayed out of the way

[01:09:45] for the most part

[01:09:46] but I would still behave and act

[01:09:48] the way people wanted me to

[01:09:50] so I could keep my head down

[01:09:51] and keep safe right

[01:09:53] so this is what happened to me

[01:09:55] seeds of doubt were planted

[01:09:57] and I was the one person that

[01:10:00] seemed to be aware of what was going on

[01:10:01] and so they needed to make sure that

[01:10:04] I questioned my memory, my perception

[01:10:05] and my judgment

[01:10:07] for example a gaslighting parent is

[01:10:09] when they deny some experiences from

[01:10:10] the past in validating their child's

[01:10:12] feelings about the event

[01:10:13] oh that never happened or

[01:10:15] uh you must be remembering that wrong

[01:10:17] or something like that or um

[01:10:19] well if you've got mental health

[01:10:20] issues it wasn't because of how

[01:10:21] you were raised or the environment

[01:10:22] you were in or how you were

[01:10:23] treated

[01:10:24] it's because of you

[01:10:25] you were born that way

[01:10:27] you know you probably just have

[01:10:28] mental health issues

[01:10:29] sometimes it's very subtle

[01:10:30] sometimes they don't just straight out

[01:10:32] say there's something wrong with you

[01:10:33] but it's implied

[01:10:34] that's why you have to be really

[01:10:36] really aware of this

[01:10:38] so that's I'm going to put another

[01:10:40] source I'm putting a lot of resources

[01:10:41] in this one okay

[01:10:42] but I'm going to put a book in there

[01:10:44] and if you only ever read two books

[01:10:46] if you only ever read two books on

[01:10:49] this topic

[01:10:49] one

[01:10:50] you need to read

[01:10:51] the body keeps the score

[01:10:53] that's about how trauma happens

[01:10:55] and how to heal it

[01:10:56] and that is the first book

[01:10:58] I recommend to a lot of people

[01:11:00] the body keeps the score

[01:11:01] and it's by Bessel van der Kolk

[01:11:04] I'll put his name

[01:11:05] so you can see how it's spelled

[01:11:06] and the title in the show notes

[01:11:08] the other one that I would recommend

[01:11:10] you get

[01:11:10] if this is all sounding too familiar

[01:11:13] is to check out Shannon Thomas

[01:11:16] Healing from Hidden Abuse

[01:11:18] so that has been family roles

[01:11:20] and relationships in narcissistic

[01:11:22] family dynamics

[01:11:23] and this is a YouTube video

[01:11:25] we talked about

[01:11:26] children and sibling roles

[01:11:28] in the narcissistic family dynamic

[01:11:30] we talked about narcissistic family

[01:11:32] dynamics

[01:11:33] such as the structure of a

[01:11:34] narcissistic family dynamic

[01:11:36] general roles in a narcissistic

[01:11:38] family dynamic

[01:11:39] unwritten rules of one

[01:11:41] when a sibling is a narcissist

[01:11:43] and when a parent is a narcissist

[01:11:45] I've recommended a lot of

[01:11:47] a lot of resources

[01:11:48] check those out

[01:11:50] as you're able

[01:11:50] the ones that really resonate

[01:11:51] with you and stand out to you

[01:11:53] that you feel will be most helpful

[01:11:54] start with those

[01:11:55] don't overwhelm yourself

[01:11:56] do a little bit at a time

[01:11:58] and as always remember

[01:12:00] that you are fearfully

[01:12:01] and wonderfully made

[01:12:02] if this happened to you

[01:12:03] it's not your fault

[01:12:04] to remember that God loves you

[01:12:06] and if you feel like

[01:12:07] God has been

[01:12:10] unkind to you

[01:12:11] and has not loved you

[01:12:13] and has not given you the life

[01:12:14] that you believe you deserve

[01:12:16] I'm not going to blame you

[01:12:17] sit here and blame you

[01:12:18] and tell you you shouldn't feel

[01:12:19] that way

[01:12:20] I felt that way

[01:12:20] I understand what that feels like

[01:12:22] I feel for you

[01:12:23] I love you

[01:12:24] but know

[01:12:25] that you also have a lot

[01:12:27] of distorted thinking

[01:12:29] that has

[01:12:29] has

[01:12:31] seeped into your mind

[01:12:32] because you've been immersed in it

[01:12:33] and you're going to project

[01:12:35] without meaning to

[01:12:36] it's not your fault

[01:12:37] it's not your fault

[01:12:38] don't beat on yourself for this

[01:12:39] but you will project

[01:12:40] a lot of that abuse

[01:12:42] that you experienced

[01:12:44] and the neglect you experienced

[01:12:45] onto what you perceive

[01:12:47] is happening in the world

[01:12:48] and that God is doing

[01:12:50] those things to you

[01:12:51] whether

[01:12:53] by omission or commission

[01:12:55] we project so much onto God

[01:12:57] I promise you

[01:12:58] I promise you

[01:12:59] God is loving

[01:13:01] God is sovereign

[01:13:02] God is good

[01:13:03] God wants good things for you

[01:13:05] God loves you

[01:13:07] and God does not do those things to you

[01:13:09] God is not a narcissist

[01:13:10] God does not do those things to you

[01:13:12] God loves you

[01:13:14] and you are

[01:13:14] you matter

[01:13:15] you're treasured

[01:13:17] you're valid

[01:13:17] your feelings are valid

[01:13:18] they're real

[01:13:19] what happened to you was real

[01:13:20] and I see you

[01:13:21] and God loves you

[01:13:22] so we're going to work on

[01:13:23] on this platform

[01:13:24] and in this channel

[01:13:25] how to heal our relationship

[01:13:26] with God

[01:13:27] especially our narcissist

[01:13:28] the projecting of narcissistic behavior

[01:13:31] onto God

[01:13:33] because the authority figures

[01:13:34] in our lives did that to us

[01:13:36] in many cases

[01:13:36] even in religious communities

[01:13:37] is so messed up

[01:13:39] there's so much deconstruction

[01:13:40] that needs to happen

[01:13:42] and when I say deconstruction

[01:13:43] I don't necessarily mean

[01:13:44] quit being a Christian

[01:13:45] that's not what I'm saying

[01:13:46] but deconstruction emotionally

[01:13:48] and mentally

[01:13:49] and cognitively of

[01:13:50] that projection

[01:13:52] that happens unintentionally

[01:13:53] it's so sad

[01:13:54] and it's so messed up

[01:13:55] I have been a victim

[01:13:57] and a survivor of it myself

[01:13:58] and I'm still just working

[01:13:59] through the beginning

[01:14:00] so in time

[01:14:01] I will take what I'm learning

[01:14:03] and what I'm working on

[01:14:04] and come up with some resources

[01:14:05] and come up with resources for you

[01:14:07] that are made specifically

[01:14:09] for this platform

[01:14:10] so stay tuned for that

[01:14:11] thank you so much for listening

[01:14:12] I know this was long

[01:14:13] thank you for following along with me

[01:14:14] I hope it's been helpful

[01:14:15] if you haven't

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[01:14:24] on Patreon or Ko-Fi

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[01:14:26] and all the resources as well

[01:14:28] thank you so much

[01:14:29] and have a great day

[01:14:33] thank you so much for listening

[01:14:34] to this episode

[01:14:35] this has been episode 12

[01:14:36] season 4

[01:14:38] of Christian Emotional Recovery

[01:14:39] and this is roles and relationships

[01:14:41] in narcissistic family dynamics

[01:14:44] it's a crossover episode

[01:14:45] I do a couple of those a year

[01:14:47] if you haven't

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[01:15:02] there is exclusive content

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[01:15:05] to the YouTube channel

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[01:15:09] thank you so much

[01:15:10] for tuning into this week's episode

[01:15:12] of Christian Emotional Recovery

[01:15:15] hosted by Rachel LaRoy

[01:15:17] for links to this week's resources

[01:15:19] and to join the discussion

[01:15:21] check out this episode's show notes

[01:15:23] at ChristianEmotionalRecovery.com

[01:15:26] where you can also find links

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[01:15:42] see you next time

[01:15:43] and remember, beloveds

[01:15:45] God loves you

[01:15:46] and you are fearfully

[01:15:48] and wonderfully made